What's New?

Music on the Mall

Wednesday, June 22, 2005

Today was the perfect day to be outdoors and if you happened to be in Pullman on the WSU campus you would have heard the beat of african drums.  That's because KuUmba was invited to perform at WSU as part of their campus involvement summer program Music on the Mall series.  Soon after the first beats were heard those who were on campus couldn't resist the call of the drums.  A group of small children showed their enjoyment by dancing to the sounds of KuUmba, which is a great compliment in african culture.  Ben, a member of the audience, came up and joined the drummers durring their performance of Kuku.

It was truly an afternoon of fun in the sun.  Thank you Chris Eder for inviting us.  We are looking forward to seeing you again in September!

KuUmba Benefit Concert

Saturday, June 18, 2005

Thank you to everyone who came to our benefit concert.  If you didn't already know, KuUmba is trying to raise enough money to go to West Africa to study the music and culture. 

We started the evening with Ashe Drum and Dance Company.  They got things heated up with their spectacular drum and dance performance.  When it was KuUmba's turn, Minh surprised the audience with a special dance that left quite an impression on the audience.  The finale with Ashe and KuUmba was so full of energy that everyone in the audience got to their feet and moved to the beat.  Thanks to everyone for your support.

Everyone who attended the concert enjoyed the music and dance of West Africa.  Kelly of Ashe Drum and Dance Company is responsible for organizing this fundraiser.  Thanks Kelly!

Northwest Profiles

Thursday, May 26, 2005

Northwest Profiles is a program of KSPS Public Televison that features interesting stories of what's happening around the Pacific Northwest and Western Canada.  The KuUmba Drummers were part of this month's Northwest Profiles episode. 



If you missed seeing the show that aired on May 26, here is a brief summary of what was said by Northwest Profiles Producer, Bill Filzner and the show's Host, Bill Stanley.  KuUmba is a dynamic group of seven students from Spokane, Washington.  You can feel the beat of this unique performance group as they show their energetic enthusiasm for West African music.  Through hard work and dedication KuUmba has become one of the Northwest's favorite African drumming groups.  They receive rave reviews for performances at schools, festivals, and cultural events throughout the Northwest.  Being a KuUmba drummer is about being a good student, a good citizen and an ambassador of diversity.  The KuUmba Drummers love what they do and it shows in the music they play! 

The KuUmba Drummers would like to thank Northwest Profiles Producer, Bill Filzner and the shows Host, Bill Stanley for their glowing review.  Also, the film crew did an amazing job and were fun to work with.

   

World Rhythm Festival - Seattle

Friday, May 20 - Sunday, May 22, 2005

Hello everyone.  We just got back from the World Rhythm Festival in Seattle, Washington.  The festival celebrates drum, dance, and percussive arts from around the world.

This year we did a teaching workshop on the rhythms of Mali.  Students learned the foundation, accompaniment and solo phrases for the rhythm Suku.  The class was a success.  On Saturday afternoon we performed rhythms from Mali, Guinea, and Liberia.  It made us feel good to see some of the people from our workshop in the audience.  As it turned out it was Alyssa's birthday on Saturday.  HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALYSSA!   

Integris Architecture

Friday, August 20, 2004

KuUmba performed for the employees of Integris Architeture Group on the lawn of the Historic Carnegie Library Building. Even passers by couldn't resist the call of the drums and stopped to listen. Then we persuaded a few Integris employees to try playing a rhythm with us. It was fun!

We found out that Integris will be building embassy's in......Bamako, Mali/ Freetown, Sierra Leone/ Conakry, Guinea and Accra, Ghana. How cool is that?!

36th Annual Art on the Green - Coeur d' Alene, ID

Friday, July 30, 2004

KuUmba was one of the 135 artists that performed at this years 36th Annual Art on the Green Celebration. Performing with us was Kelly from Ashe Drum and Dance Company. Kelly hypnotized the audience with her dance moves.

Art on the Green offers a wide variety of handcrafted works or you can create your own special art. It is a marketplace, performance space and a gathering place for friends and familes. If you're hungry enjoy corn-on-the cob and german sausage along with many other food selections.

We encourage you to come next year and join in the celebration of art, creativity and friendship at Art on the Green!

KuUmba teaches West African drumming - Issaquah, WA

Sunday, June 27 - Friday, July 2, 2004

It's Sunday and we are on our way to Issaquah Washington to teach the kids at Challenger Elementary some West African Drumming.

We will be camping at the Issaquah Highlands Campgrounds for the duration of our visit. We arrived at our campsite just before midnight, just in time to wish Sarah Happy Birthday!

Monday we had our first workshop at Challenger Elementary from 10:00 am to 3:00 pm. The students were quick learners, which made our job a lot easier.  Afterwards we headed back to camp where we relaxed for the rest of the day.

 

Tuesday was our day off so, we drove into Seattle and took a ferry ride to Bainbridge Island and back. For dinner we ate at a Chinese restaurant in West Seattle where we met Cindy and her two daughters Hannah and Emma, who are freinds of Mr. Casteal. They were very nice. We invited Hannah and Emma to come camp with us on Wednesday night.

Wednesday after our workshops we drove into Seattle to eat at Hana. Laura Scott, a friend of Mr Casteal's joined us for dinner. She was very nice. We became fast friends and invited her to come camping with us. So, after dinner we headed back to camp with Laura, Hannah and Emma. We stayed up late and played flashlight tag. Jessica and Kelly reigned supreme.

Thursday morning Mr. Casteal fixed breakfast over the camp fire. In the afternoon Hannah and Emma took us to Alki Beach where Alyssa and Laura swam in the ocean. Brrrrrrr! Later we went to Hannah and Emma's house for a BBQ. As a way to say thank you for their hospitality we played some rhythms for Cindy, her husband Bret, Hannah, and Emma. Laura came back to camp and agreed to spend a second night with us.

Friday morning we got up early and packed our stuff so we could leave for home after teaching our final workshop.

To sum it all up, we really enjoyed our time in Issaquah. The weather was great, we got to share our love of drumming and we made some new friends. Who could ask for anything more?!

Also, we would like to say a special thank you to Denise (Sarah's mom) and Jack for driving over to Issaquah and setting up camp, then driving back over at the end of the week just to take it down again!

Washington State Human Rights Commission

Thursday, June 24, 2004

KuUmba was invited to perform at the opening of the Washington State Human Rights Commission meeting that was held at the Red Lion River Inn. We got the meeting started by playing a few traditional West African rhythms. After we had everyone's attention the meeting got under way.

The mission of the Washington State Human Rights Commission is to eliminate and prevent discrimination through the fair application of the law, the efficient use of resources, and the establishment of partnerships with the community.

For more information visit www.wa.gov/hrc

Avista Corp. Finance and IS/IT Department Picnic

Friday, June 18, 2004

KuUmba provided the entertainment for the Avista Corp. Finance and IS/IT Department picnic that was held at Mission Park. Jade made her dad, Kurt Schubach who is an Avista employee, proud to be a KuUmba parent.

Race Unity Day Celebration - Coeur d' Alene, ID - City Park

Saturday, June 12, 2004

KuUmba performed at the Race Unity Day Celebration and Picnic in Coeur d' Alene which was sponsored by the Baha'is of Coeud d' Alene.

People of all racial and ethnic backgrounds were invited for an afternoon of fun. We played non-competitive games and enjoyed live music and entertainment.

Shaw Middle School Talent Show

Wednesday, June 9, 2004

KuUmba competed along with ten other performers at the Shaw Middle School Talent Show and was awarded a 1st place certificatte for providing an excellent performance.

Challenger Elementary "Family Night" - Issaquah, WA

Friday, June 4, 2004

We're back! This is our second visit to Challenger Elementary. We had so much fun on our first visit, that when they asked us back to perform for their "Family Night", of course we said yes!

There was a big turn out. They had lots of fun activities and games for the kids and parents. We had a great time!

They want us to come back at the end of June to teach drumming workshops. We are looking forward to our next visit.

See you soon Challenger!

Retirement Party for Joyce and Debbie

Wednesday, June 2, 2004

Joyce Schubach (Jade's grandma) and Debbie Wolcott have worked for the City of Spokane for twenty- seven years! As a surprise for her grandmother, Jade and the rest of KuUmba surprised Joyce and Debbie by showing up at Shenanigans, where they helped celebrate by playing some traditional West African rhythms.

Congratulations you two. You deserve it!

Goodbye Moonshadow!

Saturday, May 29, 2004

Today Michael Moon Bear will be closing the doors of his shop, Moonshadow, for the last time. Michael is a professional drumming instructor, specializing in West African drumming. He is devoted to promoting cultural understanding and awareness through traditional music.

KuUmba surprised Michael by showing up at his shop to play a few West African rhythms. He was not expecting this and was very appreciative to be honored in this way.

Michael has decided to persue his passion for teaching West African drumming and has opened World Drum & Dance Studio located at 408 West 3rd. Ave., Sopkane, WA 99204. For more information contact moonbear15@comcast.net or call (509) 624-7573.

Spokane Cares / Brittney Janes Fundraiser

Saturday, May 15, 2004

Comcast Studio - Spokane Cares
This is our second visit to the Comcast studio, so if you haven't seen us perform here's your chance to see us play.

Spokane Cares hosted by Stephen Pitters welcomed the KuUmba Drummers into the Comcast studio to do a segment on local artists. Mr. Pitters was overwhelmed after hearing us play.

The half hour show will air on Wednesday, June 9th at 7pm and again on Wednesday June 23rd at 7pm on Comcast channel 14.

Brittney Janes Fundraiser
Brittney is trying to raise money to participate in the Heart of the Mediterranean Tour People to People Student Ambassador Program.

Brittney who is a fellow classmate of the KuUmba Drummers asked our group to come and perform at her Spring Fling Spaghetti Feed Fundraiser which was held at Minnehaha Covenant Church.

The fundraiser included a bake sale, raffle, silent auction and lots of incredible music.

Diversity & Equity Awards Ceremony @ Ferris High School

Thursday, May 13, 2004

The Diversity & Equity Awards Ceremony at Ferris High School Auditorium was to honor those who contributed to "Keeping the Peace" this year. On this night Spokane Public Schools Diversity Advisory Council recognizes those persons who have created an equitable environment and safer schools in the Spokane community.

The evening got under way with performances from the following groups: Ferris High School Drumline, Moses Family Drummers, Raleigh Brown, and KuUmba Drummers.

Other performances were given by the following groups throughout the awards ceremony: Audubon Elementary 6th Grade Chorus, Ferris High School Canterbury Belles, Rogers High School Step Team, Shaw Middle School Diversity Singing Team.

To close the evenings awards ceremony the KuUmba Drummers rocked the house by playing rhythms from West Africa. Audience members jumped up out of their seats and headed up on stage to dance to the beat of the drums.

Afterwards, everyone enjoyed Desserts From Around The Wold sponsored by Spokane Teachers Credit Union.

Cheney High School French and Percussion classes

Monday, May 10, 2004

We were asked to come and perform for the French and Percussion classes at Cheney High School. We had fun because after playing for them we were able to interact with the students by teaching them a rhythm called Kuku.

12th Annual Women Helping Women Fund Benefit Luncheon

Thursday, May 6, 2004

This was an important venue for us to perform at because it was a way for us to give our support to an organization that has helped so many in our community. The Women Helping Women Fund was established in 1992 and has raised more than $2.3 million for 175 programs in Spokane county.

Deloris Jordan (Michael Jordan's mom) was this years keynote speaker. Her message was about putting family first.

A crowd of 1,700 attended Thursday's luncheon at the Spokane Convention Center. Thanks to the generosity of those who attended this weeks luncheon the WHWF raised $234,000! These funds will help nearly two dozen local agencies that aid women and children.

H & R Block Annual Employee Banquet

Saturday, May 1, 2004

It was a fun night at Northern Quest Casino for the Annual H & R Block Employee Banquet. The banquet was coordinated by Kathy Henthorn a H & R Block employee and who also happens to be the parent of Kelly Henthorn, one of the KuUmba Drummers.

After a glowing indtroduction by Kathy, KuUmba impressed the audience with their talent and energy. To end the evening some of the employees had fun learning a rhythm called "Kuku". The audience couldn't get over the fact that they are only seventh and eighth graders! Several people signed up to buy their CD.

Jane Elliott "Anatomy of Prejudice"

Tuesday, April 27, 2004

Opening Minds to Difference was initiated and coordinated by an EWU student, Romeal Watson as part of the EWU Human Rights Series. KuUmba was fortunate to be part of this event.

The evenings entertainment was performed by KuUmba Drummers, Hui 'O Hawai'i, and Niki Humphrey. Dr. Raymond Reyes currently the Associate Vice President for Diversity at Gonzaga University was also present to speak on the topic of prejudice.

Besides our performance at EWU in the Showalter Auditouium, earlier in the day we performed at Gonzaga University where Jane Elliott was also the speaker.

Jane Elliott is one of America's most respected speakers on discrimination and prejudice. Jane is known for her "Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes" discrimination experiment. Those who have participated in this exercise have said it is an emotionally significant and life-changing experience.

The Hub Club Talent Show

Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Bravo to all of the students who participated in the Hubs Talent Show at Shadle Park High School. The Showcase of Champions were: Whitman: Zingarimba, Westview: Hub Cap Singers, Pratt, Stevens: Dance Team, Cooper: Drums & Percussion (D.A.P.), Regal: World Music Jam, Regal: Ramettes Dance Group, Native Hub: Native Drummers, Adams, Longfellow, Roosevelt: Dance Team, Linwood: Marimba Madness, Franklin: Drama Group, Bemiss: Pup Stars, Garry: Hip Hoppers and Shaw: KuUmba. The evening came to a close with the audience dancing to the beat of West African music.

Spokane Public Schools is experiencing a budget short fall. The School Board is seeking public input to help establish budget priorities at two community forums.

If you are interested in showing your support for extra learning opportunities, like The Hubs, please come to one of the forums listed below.

May 5, 2004 @ Chase Middle School, 7:00 p.m. or

May 6, 2004 @ Glover Middle School, 7:00 p.m.

Saturday Night at Auntie's

Saturday, April 17, 2004

We have been looking forward to performing at Aunties Book Store for several months. It was a huge success. Some people got up and were dancing to the beat of the drums. After the performance we took questions from the audience.

As it turns out our performance coincided with the release of our first CD, "In Our Rhythm". Our goal is to raise enough money from CD sales to fund an educational trip to Africa.

Comcast Studio - Language of Music and Dancing

Saturday, April 10, 2004

We're going to be on TV!

Today we went to the Comcast Studio as guests of the show Language of Music and Dancing. We played a few rhythms and then Julie Banks, the host, asked us some questions about our music.

There will be two segments. The first segment will air on May 4, 15 and 29 at 4:30 p.m. on channel 14. The second half will air on May 8 and 22 at 4:30 p.m. on channel 14.

Issaquah, WA

Friday, April 2, 2004

While we were in Seattle Washington for the 12th Annual World Rhythm Festival we also performed for two elementary schools in Issaquah Washington.

First we performed at Sunny Hills Elementary for Miss Molly Hardy's first grade music class. They learned a basic rhythm and then they got to play it on the drums. They had fun. It was very loud! The students had to catch their busses, so we said goodbye and headed over to the cafeteria where we performed for the Mustang Club which is part of the Issaquah School District School Age Care Program. Grades K-5 enjoyed some hands on instruction and then it was time for us to leave.

Our next stop was Challenger Elementary where we entertained students in the Comet Club, also part of the Issaquah School District School Age Care Program. The kids had a lot of fun. They were dancing all over the place! We really enjoyed seeing the kids having such a good time.

Thank you Brian Hercules, Site Manager and Nathan Winegar, Program Director for giving us the opportunity to share our love of West African music with your students!

See you in June for Family night and in July!

12th Annual World Rhythm Festival - Seattle, WA

April 2 - 4, 2004 (Seattle Center)

Our trip to Seattle was a blast! Thanks to everyone who donated funds for the trip.

The World Rhythm Festival is a three day free event to celebrate percussion traditions from around the world.

When we finally arrived in Seattle around 9:00 a.m. we checked into our hotel then headed for the Seattle Center where we had lunch and saw Hank Voss & Global Kids Ensemble teaching a workshop on the Center House Stage. Hank Voss is a hand drummer who came to the United States from Southeast Africa when he was 15 years old. Alyssa, Carrisa and Jade couldn't resist the call of the drums and joined in the fun.

On Saturday we got up really early and worked out with Mr. Cassey. Boy were we pooped! Then we ate breakfast and headed over to the festival to attend some workshops. At 4:00 p.m. we were very excited to see Thione Diop & Yeke Yeke perform on the Center House Stage. Thione Diop is one of the most talented and dynamic drummers in the Northwest. After dinner we put in a couple hours of practice to get ready for our performance on the Center House Stage on Sunday.

After working out and having breakfast on Sunday morning we headed over to the festival to set up for our noon performance. At first we didn't have a very big audience but once we started to play the people started arriving. We received kudos from Simone LaDrumma founder and director of Ladies Don't Drum, a unique all-female percussion ensamble. During our performance Tyler Richart who teaches West African drumming came up on stage and gave each of us a tip! After our performance we were brought backstage and asked to come back next year and play for the opening ceremony. Can you believe it?!

Planet Percussion Band came on right after us. They were awesome! Planet Percussion combines its own unique rhythms with those of other cultures by using dance, color and a wonderful assortment of percussion instruments from around the world. Their mission is to bring the world together and celebrate cultural diversity. Mission accomplished!

Monday morning we checked out of our hotel and spent the day exploring downtown Seattle before heading home to Spokane.

Thanks Seattle! See you next year.

 

7th Community Congress on Race Relations

Wednesday, March 24, 2004

Today we performed for the 7th Community Congress on Race Relations at SCC. The three rhythms we played were Wassaladon, Loco Ocho and Soli. We received lots of applause from the audience. The Gonzaga ROTC presented the colors and then Jessica led everyone in the pledge of allegiance. Then off to school we went.

Gonzaga Preparatory School Choral & Chamber Orchestra Concert

by Jessica Cloyd | Tuesday, March 16, 2004

KuUmba and the BullpupsTonight we were excited to be invited back as special guests to perform at the Gonzaga Preparatory School Choral & Chamber Orchestra Concert. Our performance went very well. We played Garanki Foli, Balakulandyan, Kakilambe' and Loco Ocho. We performed with several choirs and an orchestra. We received a standing ovation and numerous compliments.

It was announced to the audience that all seven of us will be submitting applications to attend Gonzaga Prep. Everyone was very excited that we may be starting next year as freshman. We understand that attending Gonzaga Prep will be very challenging, but all of us have pledged to do our best and help each other.

Gonzaga Prep, S.N.A.P., and Movie Night

Sunday, March 14, 2004

This week has kept us busy with the following events:

Carrisa, Sarah and MinhThe G-Prep Spring Concert was very exciting. We practiced hard during the weekend and Monday in preparation and look forward to our return performance next Tuesday for the Choir Concert.

Our performance at the S.N.A.P. retreat was in honor of Faye Turner who was a community service employee. She loved Africa. During her life she went on several missions to Africa. Faye passed away on February 21, 2004.

Performance: Reardan School and INTO THE STUDIO!

Friday, March 5, 2004

We headed to Reardan, Washington were we performed for the grade school students. The students and teachers really got into the music. Mr. Casteal taught them some dance steps and some words to a song. We had a really good time.

Kelly in the studioAlso, this was a very important day for us because we went into the recording studio to record our first CD. We were in the studio for two long days. Being in a recording studio was a whole new experience for us. There were a lot of things that we had to do differently. For instance, some of us were in separate sound proof rooms so we had to wear head phones to hear each other. It was challenging, but fun. Pam Meyer, the sound engineer at SFCC, was great. She is very good at what she does. We can't thank Pam enough for her patience and expertise. Pam, you rock!

Performance: Gonzaga University BSU Diversity Dinner

Friday, February 27, 2004

Christelle Gornan, the vice-president of the BSU at Gonzaga University, asked us to perform at their Black Student Union Diversity Dinner. There were some amazing speakers who spoke about diversity. We were honored to be a part of the celebration. Thanks for having us Christelle! She saw us perform at St. Aloysius Church in January where we opened for the Harlem Gospel Choir. After the show she told us that she was from the Ivory Coast and that our music reminded her of home.

Performance: Rotary Club

by Mr. C | Thursday, February 26, 2004

KuUmba was the featured entertainment at the Rotary Club's monthly meeting. The Rotary heard of us through our Artfest performance last year and asked if we would play during their meeting and share a bit of the music's history.

We played well, and answered questions ranging from hand technique to how rhythms are learned. KuKu seemed to be an audience favorite. The Rotary director said, "This is a tough crowd, they are difficult to please and never give standing ovations. The one KuUmba received was the first in over three years".

Performance: SFCC "Gathering of Elders"

by Mr. C | Friday, February 13, 2004

Minh @ SFCCWe were asked to perform for the "Gathering Of Elders" at the SFCC lodge. This was part of a black history celebration to recognize the difficulties and accomplishments of the first blacks to arrive in Spokane. KuUmba was asked to provide the opening of this celebration with drums, which is very traditional in West Africa.

The group opened with a rhythm from Mali called Wassaladon and moved into Soli a rhythm from Guinea. The audience, mostly students on lunch break, was a bit shy but once the drums began to play bodies began to sway to the strong playing of the dunun section (Kelly, Minh and Sarah).

Alyssa played a solo on a rhythm from Mali that seemed to amaze people.

Jessica played her solo with such passion that people rose to cheer before she finished. It was spectacular. When Jessica gets into a drumming trance, as she did here, her playing transforms into poetry.

Carrisa and Alyssa were happy because they got their photo in the newspaper.

Performance: SFCC Black History Month

Wednesday, February 11, 2004

We would like to thank Adrian Williams, the director of cultural studies at SFCC, for having us perform as part of Black History month.

The Introduction of MOVIE NIGHT!

by Mr. C | Friday, February 6, 2004

As a way to help the group obtain a deeper understanding of tolerance, diversity and equality, we decided to have movie screenings of films that speak to controversy, hate, race and the unjust.

The group does not simply watch the films and go home. They take notes, formulate questions and have a pre and post movie discussion, write a journal entry and ask for insight or feedback from their parents.

KuUmba is proof that with effort racial tension can be broken. One hundred times I have heard "I can't believe these kids are playing this type of music so well. They seem to capture the spirit of Africa." True, KuUmba has a great responsibility. In many ways they speak for those in Africa less fortunate.

Tonight we will be watching American History X.

Performance: Joy Bell Christian Schoolhouse

Friday, January 23, 2004

Carrisa and Sarah @ Joy Bell schoolWe were invited as special guests to the Joy Bell Christian Schoolhouse. The kids had fun dancing and playing on the drums. Sarah's two younger brothers Nicholas and Andrew were proud to be sharing their older sister with the class. We talked about Africa and they sang us a song.


Performance: Opening for the Harlem Gospel Choir

by Mr. C | Wednesday, January 21, 2004

Harlem Gospel ChoirA big thank you goes to Austin DePaolo, the Executive Director of The Martin Luther King Jr. Family Outreach Center. It was because of Austin that we were asked to be the opening act for the Harlem Gospel Choir.

The audience for this function was 700+. Organizers were afraid that a group of thirteen and fourteen year olds would not be professional enough or have the talent to open for the internationally known Harlem Gospel Choir.

Jade's solo on Garanke Foli and the groups performance put such words to rest. Comment from a high school teacher: "I wanted KuUmba to keep playing. I wasn't ready for the Gospel yet!" Comment from Christelle Gornan, a GU student from the Ivory Coast: "The music reminded me of home" (the greatest compliment ever!).

Performance: Martin Luther King Jr. Remembrance March

by Mr. C | Monday, January 19, 2004

Today was the Martin Luther King Jr. Remembrance March in downtown Spokane. Austin DePaolo, Executive Director of The Martin Luther King Jr. Center, asked KuUmba to come and use their drums to gather the people and move their spirit.

Mission accomplished! The groups performance at this function (lasted barely ten minutes) received such a positive response that it led to seven future gigs in and around Spokane.

Performance: North Central High School

by Mr. C | Thursday, January 15, 2004

My how things come full circle. The first time we played for North Central High School in 2001, the kids sat in chairs because the djembes were too heavy for them to carry for more than four minutes. Minh and Kelly played the dunun's while sitting on the floor because they had a hard time standing and playing.

Every year North Central puts on a program based on equality and tolerance. KuUmba was honored to be asked to participate.

Sarah's big brother D.J (student at NC) finally got to see how wonderful a drummer his little sister is.

Welcome to Our Website! and First Night Performance

Monday, December 15, 2003

KuUmba @ First NightWe are very excited to be on the web. If you would like to see and hear us live, we will be performing at First Night, Wednesday, December 31st, 2003.

We will be posting our performance schedule along with photos and news about our experiences. Please come back often to see what we are up to.